Curse

the_jos · Jun 14, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Would I advice someone to buy GW right now?
I still would

I feel sorry for these "someones".

While I think I understand you, let's get one thing straight.

For slightly under 100 Euros I can get all the chapters and the EotN expansion and did not even search for heavy discounts. Just picked one of the online stores I know.
I've played a lot of games besides GW and there are only a very few that cought my attention that long.
Starcraft, C&C, Half Life.
Just considering the amount of content that can be experienced and the fact that you can start it over again with a new profession (and a lot to learn) gives very good value for money.

Two months of WoW is about 30 Euro, so you can play WoW for about half a year for the price of all GW (except BMP).

How long does it take to do everything you can in the game?
Probably far longer then that 6 months.
With the help of a good guild you can probably speed things but you would still need to invest a lot of time.

Could you please explain what made the game so bad in your perspective that investing some money and time in the game is a complete waste (besides that gaming can be considered a waste of money and time), Cacheelma?

Abedeus · Jun 14, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

How long does it take to do everything you can in the game?
Probably far longer then that 6 months.
With the help of a good guild you can probably speed things but you would still need to invest a lot of time.

Could you please explain what made the game so bad in your perspective that investing some money and time in the game is a complete waste (besides that gaming can be considered a waste of money and time), Cacheelma?

Because in GW you can do everything in 1-2 months. Every dungeon, mission and ,,elite'' area.

Horseman Of War · Jun 14, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

ANETS BIGGEST FAILURE: Changing Viper's Defense from a stance with a conditional effect, to a spell with that effect instantly.

"Dont wand the Onis"

How I will miss that one....

For me, the best time in GW was during the beginning of 2007, when I could find a 9-Man PuG for Deep in two minutes.

I have not had a good Deep group since before Ursan went live.

/cry

WTS r9 sould reaping +10 vs demons +1 blood

Bryant Again · Jun 14, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Are you saying that after 3 years of playing the game doesn´t turn into something really easy? You know exactly when to do what etc., it is naturally that doing something, almost exclusively, for 3 years will make you feel burned out.

It doesn't turn easy, you become better. All of these changes that ANet has made have made the game easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Could you please explain what made the game so bad in your perspective that investing some money and time in the game is a complete waste (besides that gaming can be considered a waste of money and time), Cacheelma?

If you like, I can give you my view?

As I've already mentioned before, GW is great for your buck. You could probably get all four campaigns (GWEN included) for 50$-60$ around here, and that is a LOT of game. It's just what ANet's done to the depth of it that's bummed me out.

I would never consider my time in GW a "waste", I'm just massively concerned with the directions it's taken. It's gone from being a very unique online RPG to a bit more on the generic side of your typical MMO, and I hope that they don't go this route with GW2.

manitoba1073 · Jun 14, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Anet made the game easier, not the other way around.

It's a bad MMO now. What more do you need to discuss?

Couldnt agree more with you on this point. By listening to ppl such as Avarre and them about things like removing refund points, allowing the auto creation of PvP chars, Took the actually learning of the skills and game right away from players. Then you had the crying and whining for nerfs instead of letting ppl actually have to learn to deal with them. SO you guys asked for the crow now you have to eat it. Though I do find it quite funny that things just like consumables have been in game since day one and for a fact I know alot have used them and now really only started to cry about them is quite funny.

Lets see those claims that there wasnt anything close. Better yet Ill tell you so you dont make an ass outa yourselfs. Shrine bonuses worked just like consumables.

Hell why your at it lets remove the bonuses to from killing bosses.

Yes im back.

Lopezus · Jun 14, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

But it no longer has the depth it used to, and that's what's disappointing.

maybe but it's going far deeper then QQ about ursan and pve skills.
Elite areas like DoA that DON'T promote skill but stupid tank/nukers/healers build , hell tank/nukers/healers is exact build that is ATROCITY to guildwars unique and original concept. So it's pretty clear that Anet wanted to get rid of it with giving first sunspears pve skills: like SY or TNTF bringing huge damage reduction from owerpowered mobs give far better chance to bring more proffesion diversity into teams. But seeing it's not working that decided to replace elitist atrocity of tank/nukers/healers with egalitarian atrocity of ursanas.

Bryant Again · Jun 14, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Elite areas like DoA that DON'T promote skill but stupid tank/nukers/healers build , hell tank/nukers/healers is exact build that is ATROCITY to guildwars unique and original concept.

Playing as the holy trinity was popular not because it was the best but because it was easy. This was balanced by the fact that it was slow as hell and risky as shit.

The best way through the areas was knowing your stuff, setting up good builds, and playing well - i.e. by being a good player.

So yes, you could go through areas in this easy-to-use setup the "holy trinity". But it was all balanced out by the consequences.

TheHaxor · Jun 14, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Couldnt agree more with you on this point. By listening to ppl such as Avarre and them about things like removing refund points, allowing the auto creation of PvP chars, Took the actually learning of the skills and game right away from players. Then you had the crying and whining for nerfs instead of letting ppl actually have to learn to deal with them. SO you guys asked for the crow now you have to eat it. Though I do find it quite funny that things just like consumables have been in game since day one and for a fact I know alot have used them and now really only started to cry about them is quite funny.

Lets see those claims that there wasnt anything close. Better yet Ill tell you so you dont make an ass outa yourselfs. Shrine bonuses worked just like consumables.

Hell why your at it lets remove the bonuses to from killing bosses.

Yes im back.

You and Malice are both idiots.

Lankster24 · Jun 14, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Woah!

I just got back to playing guildwars after a very long break and alot has changed for the better or worse of the game i wont know cause my first day back i got banned for character name violation. So if someone could please pm me an update of the last 6-8 months it would be appreciated.

Also i agree with your letter 100% the game has been in decline for along time 90% of my alliance has left for bigger and better games now because of the changes.(that i dont know about yet)

manitoba1073 · Jun 14, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

You and Malice are both idiots.

Why because the lot got what they asked for and now are pissing and moaning about it. Those are the true idiots. Im not the one complaining about the recent changes. As a matter of fact I feel its putting the skill>time back into the game. Anet just needs to go much farther with it.

the_jos · Jun 14, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Because in GW you can do everything in 1-2 months. Every dungeon, mission and ,,elite'' area.

No, a new player cannot!
At least not with access to very experienced players who are willing to help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's just what ANet's done to the depth of it that's bummed me out. ..... I'm just massively concerned with the directions it's taken. It's gone from being a very unique online RPG to a bit more on the generic side of your typical MMO, and I hope that they don't go this route with GW2.

Fair point, understand that.
The 'depth' is something that is kinda mixed.
The depth is still there, what A-net did was adding some 'tools' that made it easier to conquer that depth.
The reason? Probably keeping a somewhat even playingfield for HoM achievements.

I share your concern but also see other things.
Players will resort to the most effective way to get something done.
After the SF change AC was spammed by requests for the perma-sin build.
Why? Because it's efficient and most probably easier to play then the terra tank. Dunno why someone needs all that cash or ecto (except for FoW armor) but that's something else.

The same is true about the PvE skills, combined with consumables.
They provide a tool which is easy to use for players who are not as experienced.

Take for example the very fast times [agro] set in the elite areas.
They don't use Ursan for it. Did they set their record Deep time with Ursan? Don't think so. UW without PvE skills in extremely fast time in the event by DVDF? Doubt Ursan teams can do it that fast.

For the experienced players skills like UB don't really matter.
I see far more benefit from consumables than 'overpowered' PvE skills.
Where UB does matter is team organisation. That's a PUG problem, not the problem of a group of experienced players.

The only warning sign here is that A-net should not make such shortcuts in GW2.
I'm not sure they will, doubt it tbh.

byteme! · Jun 14, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

You all should be fortunate the "majority" are in game playing because they don't care/don't know etc... and might be actually enjoying the game. If Anet does anything radical and causes the "majority" to suddenly take notice and care then you've got yourself a big problem. Try not to stir the pot so much eh? It might spill over.

Bryant Again · Jun 14, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

For the experienced players skills like UB don't really matter.
I see far more benefit from consumables than 'overpowered' PvE skills.
Where UB does matter is team organisation. That's a PUG problem, not the problem of a group of experienced players.

The only warning sign here is that A-net should not make such shortcuts in GW2.
I'm not sure they will, doubt it tbh.

Let's hope not.

All in all, the PvE skills make very little sense. If ANet wanted more people to see the elite areas, then they should've eased up on the difficulty in normal mode. Making hard mode more accessible was just the silly way to go.

If they were largely included to help increase the speed of acquiring titles, then lower the requirements of them. Don't dumb down the entire game for the sake of the HoM.

DreamWind · Jun 14, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Are you saying that after 3 years of playing the game doesn´t turn into something really easy? You know exactly when to do what etc., it is naturally that doing something, almost exclusively, for 3 years will make you feel burned out.

You (and a few others) are completely missing what some people are trying to say. The great games of all time are easy to learn but difficult to master. That is what Guild Wars USED to be. Now it is more difficult to learn and easy to master. The DEPTH of the game is gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bytime

You all should be fortunate the "majority" are in game playing because they don't care/don't know etc... and might be actually enjoying the game. If Anet does anything radical and causes the "majority" to suddenly take notice and care then you've got yourself a big problem. Try not to stir the pot so much eh? It might spill over.

Anet did not have to change their entire game vision in order to keep "the majority". Some people are making it seem like Anet had to change everything in order to keep players, even though they gained and kept a ton of players before the changes were made.

kostolomac · Jun 14, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

skill>time was gone after factions. And btw only the cover of proph advertised skill>time.

byteme! · Jun 14, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Anet did not have to change their entire game vision in order to keep "the majority".

Exactly!!! They didn't have to change their entire game and they still don't. Things are fine as it is. Why did you even bother quoting me? As it stands RIGHT NOW, present day the majority are where? and doing what? Game is fine. Accept the changes Anet has made and stop stirring the pot. Kthxbye.

P.S. The name is byteme! not bytime. If you gonna quote me at least get my name right. =)

Kashrlyyk · Jun 14, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

... The great games of all time are easy to learn but difficult to master. That is what Guild Wars USED to be. Now it is more difficult to learn and easy to master. The DEPTH of the game is gone.
....

Name a few games that fit that. Especially Action RPGs!

DreamWind · Jun 14, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Exactly!!! They didn't have to change their entire game and they still don't. Things are fine as it is. Why did you even bother quoting me? As it stands RIGHT NOW, present day the majority are where? and doing what? Game is fine so stop stirring the pot. Kthxbye.

P.S. The name is byteme! not bytime. If you gonna quote me at least get my name right. =)

You aren't responding to the problem. You are basically saying "things are fine because people are playing the game". That doesn't address the problem, that a lot of people were fine with the game previously and still would have been fine with it now if it were still that way.

manitoba1073 · Jun 14, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Name a few games that fit that. Especially Action RPGs!

There really isnt under that. I bet though hes still confused about his first move in Othello

byteme! · Jun 14, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Name a few games that fit that. Especially Action RPGs!

Super Mario Bros. Easy to learn. 2 buttons. 2D world. Hard to master. (I saw a video of some guy finish the game in 11 minutes. 0 deaths 99 lives and the entire run was flawless. Hard to explain but you've got to see it. Almost bot like. Spends majority of his time in the air hopping from 1 monster to the next. I was like, "OMFG! Haxzorz!")